As ever, Rob Trujillo is the river that helps connect Metallica and ensure there is always flow between the four band members. He remains – in my opinion – the quintessential rock’n’roll renaissance man: a supremely creative, connective, empathetic, and enlightened person who constantly seeks fresh creative energy and always wants to learn more about everything. The Trujillo household reverberates with artistic life. Chloe Trujillo is an internationally successful designer and artist. Their daughter, Lullah, a talented and engaged artist who has also been raging on the drums and skateboarding. And their son, Tye, continues to write his own legacy as a bass player par excellence with his band Ottto, a blast-beat speed metal band, a classic rock band, and writing trip-hop tunes as well as being a skateboarder of enormous repute. Deep breath! 2020 has been a year which has seen the family rolling through a variety of activities together, whether creating family dinners or hitting the beach and subsequent waves (Rob and Tye remain avid surfers).

Rob would be the first to agree that elements of this COVID-19 era have had him staring down the rabbit holes society (and the internet) conveniently throw into our path. A late-night person, he has spent a few furtive small hours delving deep into the myriad of thoughts and opinions offered. Yet equally in true Trujillo fashion, he takes a pinch here, a bite there, and arrives at the conclusion of balance and reality. Remember, he is a seeker. This is what seekers do: they push, they probe, and they remain curious and thus creative.

Thus leads us into the chat you find here, which took place as Rob drove back down the 101 to SoCal after the Pandemica show (nicer scenery he informed me).

Steffan Chirazi: Let’s first talk about the first inkling you got of something coming together in the event sphere. When did you first get wind that this was coming together?

Robert Trujillo: I’d say mid-July, we received a text that said we were moving forward with the gig. So it felt like it was maybe gonna be a little loose? I don’t know if unorganized is the right word, but it just seemed like it was a little too close for it to happen. And then it ended up coming together, so it was good for me because immediately when that happened, I was like, “Oh, shit, time to pick up the bass and get to work.” Before that, I’d spent more time playing piano and guitar for fun, so when the word came through about Pandemica, I realized it was time to roll up my sleeves, get back on the old Bajo, put the pedal to the metal, and that’s the mode I got into.

At that point I was like, “Man, I’m rusty, the rust has definitely settled.” In the house, I’m downstairs and I hear Tye playing every day, and then all of a sudden it kind of dawned on me that wow, I haven’t even been playing bass so much. So when this gig opportunity came, it forced me to get back on the bass and start hammering out the songs. Then you realize how those muscles and those tendons in your arms, and even up to your shoulder, they’re not active. Along with the calluses! You know, bass strings are big and fat man, and they hurt. It hurts when you haven’t been playing in a while.

SC: Interesting. I hadn’t even thought of that. The calluses are a big deal, the protection.

RT: I asked James after the first or second day of rehearsal, how do your fingers feel? He goes, “Sore, totally sore.” So it wasn’t even just me, you know? I was like, “Okay, good, it’s not just me,” because something that we forget, that we take for granted sometimes, is just getting into the muscles in your arms, and your fingers, and all the little tendons, and your calluses, all make a huge difference.

SC: I can see that muscle memory is a big deal, and if you’re not using those muscles, it’s a little bit of a shock to the system.

RT: So the first few rehearsals my fingertips were actually in a lot of pain, but you know, I gotta say, today it felt really good, the gig the other night felt really good, and some of that even has to do with Kirk. Because Kirk was like, “Come over to my place and jam,” on the day off, so we ended up getting together. Even through the rehearsals we would get together at Kirk’s and jam for a couple hours. We’d would rehearse “All Within My Hands,” the acoustic version, but then that suddenly turned into a Hendrix jam, or some spontaneous original new idea or something. And that’s when I realized my fingers were starting to get in shape. That’s when I was like, okay, I’m back.

SC: Very cool that you were able to work that out. And then what about your experience of the protocols that were put in place, and this whole bubble that was created? How do you work with that? Because there’s a lot of things about protocol that go directly against the usual behavior in live music, for example, even swapping your bass over with Zach.

RT: Well, I gotta hand it to the crew. They were so responsible with what the protocol was, wearing the face shields and the masks and the gloves, inside and outside. It was impressive that they were so committed to making this go as smoothly as they could. So you gotta hand it to the crew, man, they’ve got a strong work ethic, and you could tell the guys on the crew were very thankful for this, and also for being taken care of during this time off, helping them to still stay on board and connected to Metallica.

SC: It’s a massive thing.

RT: You know, they really, really respected that. Your crew are obviously your extended family, but we couldn’t do it without ’em, and they helped make the magic happen, including being respectful of the protocol.

SC: Tell me more about some of the protocols put in place.

RT: Well, you know, you can’t just go hang out with anybody. I had calls or messages from friends, I got a lot of friends in the Bay Area, and the ones who knew that I was in town obviously wanted to hang out. And I’m like, “Dude, I can’t hang, we got a bubble going on, we’re quarantining hard.” Mike Bordin said, “Hey, you gotta come by our place in Napa.” And I’m like, “Man, I can’t do it,” and I always try to see Mike Bordin. My brother said I should swing by Big Sur and go surfing, and again, “I can’t do it.” I believe it’s better to be safe than sorry, and I appreciate that. But I do also believe that there is a way to make things happen and get productive results by respecting the protocol and taking the necessary measures to just make sure, you know? We’re trying to get something done and accomplish something that’s very important to the fans and also to us as band members, and to the art and the music of what we’re doing. I think when Metallica does something, it helps the bigger picture and other bands too. Like, oh, well, if Metallica did it, we can do it too. You know what I mean? So let’s respect the protocol, make music, make stuff happen and get back to work.

SC: How many times did you get tested in total?

RT: Oh, I must’ve gotten tested six times at minimum. Other people got tested more than me, it was a lot of work and I know it cost a lot of money too, you know. It’s not cheap to get a large amount of people tested. But there you go. If you want to move towards a bigger picture and try to cultivate a safe work environment, you gotta go through this. It’s a bit of an experiment and it’s a calculated risk, but it’s worth it, because this may determine that you’re able get back to work and get the machine up and running. Hopefully this leads to some other things and writing in person [which has transpired – ED].

SC: I gotta ask…did you go for the same nostril each time or did you have alternating nostrils?

RT: It was the lucky right nostril. And we were also getting the throat then too.

SC: Well, let’s be honest. The throat doesn’t feel like much compared to the nostril.

RT: Exactly.

SC: The throat is nothing. I mean, the nostril is definitely a strange feeling, but you get used to it. I only had it twice, but I got used to it. It wasn’t a big thing. But I think one of the most important aspects, from my perspective, of what happened with this Pandemica event, was simply the act of it happening. You know, me and you have talked about this off record. From my perspective it felt strangely normalizing, and since it’s happened, I’ve had a slightly more like cheerful look about life. It’s like okay, well, that significant bit of my life has kinda activated again, even though we’re wearing masks and waving at each other. Describe from a band member’s perspective if you all went through the same thing. Describe the anxiety of maybe what it was coming together.

RT: Yeah. Well, you know, there was anxiety because we couldn’t really just get together and start playing. We had to go through the testing, and then getting back into rehearsal mode is always a little bit shaky in the first session. You work towards feeling more comfortable about everything. There were even moments where I think there was - I don’t know if “stress” is the right word but just… I don’t know… it felt like there was maybe a little bit of anxiety. And I think for James, he was checking it out – and this is only my opinion. Finding himself in that positive head space again and refocusing on these songs that we haven’t played in eleven months here, like, “Okay, here I am again. How do I feel?”

SC: Yeah. And I mean that’s something that it’d be easy to forget. Quite aside from the pandemic, there was the fact that after the Chase Center, James went to rehab, and it was a big surprise to everyone, probably to him as well. It was another moment where the band was cruising at high altitude, the model was set and everything was good, and then suddenly it got blown apart. I think it’s important to address that. So there would’ve been anxiety without COVID, right? Whatever the first event was, am I right?

RT: Yeah, there would’ve been. And you throw into the mix too, “How does James feel about this? Is he comfortable?” So it was a little bit surreal at first, because we just played, but I at least wasn’t sure how he really, really felt about it [referring to the first couple of rehearsal jams at HQ – ED]. And it’s always important to me to make sure everybody’s comfortable and in a great place with what’s going down, you know? Last thing I want is to twist anybody’s arm into trying to do something that they’re just not feeling in their heart. But he started to feel connected to the spirit of the band and crew, and even though we couldn’t hug each other or shake hands and get into all that, it all came together beautifully. It felt like we accomplished something super important for a bigger picture, and a big step forward.

SC: Was there a moment for you that the chemistry just took over and brought you back to being the force again? Was there a moment that clicked, where you’re like, “Fuck, we’re swinging!”?

RT: I felt that even though we played, in my mind, pretty solid and tight during the performance, with the Howard Stern thing it was like, “Okay, we’re badass, we’ve got this, we’re back.” Even though we were tired and on very little sleep, something felt really special. When I’m tired I don’t talk much so I was a little more subdued than normal, but I did certainly feel proud that we were able to get on our instruments even though we hadn’t slept much, and put on the performance that we were able to deliver, especially with one of those songs being one we don’t play very often – that song being “All Within My Hands,” the acoustic version. But you know, Avi [Vinocur, he of Goodnight Texas fame and the occasional acoustic collaborator – ED], myself, and Kirk put a lot of extra time and homework into it so it would be great. And it helped us big time, I’m glad that we did that.

SC: Let’s go back to the actual Pandemica performance. It felt to me like just after the initial “Hardwired,” that the gears started to drop in and suddenly it was just moving. But did you feel that shift into gear?

RT: I did. I really did feel it. I felt it at a certain point in the set, I would say during “Master of Puppets” that, you know what? We’re back and I’m gonna fucking headbang like I haven’t in a very, very long time, so I just kinda let my hair down and started going for it. And it was natural. It wasn’t a contrived moment; it was a natural moment where my adrenalin took over. Always on a first gig, it’s important when you can find that moment in your physical being to naturally deliver that extra kind of energy.

SC: What happened in Sonoma was very personal and very deep. I mean it was deep for many reasons, right?

RT: Well, the importance of the gig was something that is really hard to explain. I’ve only personally seen the NBA create the bubble and create the opportunity to have… I’ll call it “moving the machine forward” and being productive. It was our example of trying to take that step, and like I said before, it’s a very, very crucial, important first step because it determines whether you can actually pull this off. I feel that more than anything, the gig represented that first big step in a lot of ways, including how are we as a band? It had been eleven months. Where are our personalities at? Where are our hearts at? How passionate are we now? I mean, with the pandemic, a lot of things can change. So that show represented a total release.

SC: Do you think it was a statement that undeniable chemistry will always rule over everything?

RT: I do believe that chemistry is vital, and if you have it, you have it, and if you don’t, unfortunately you don’t. And it did kinda reiterate that we have a chemistry that was possibly gonna be challenged for a lot of reasons, and everybody knows those reasons. So the fact that we could find that chemistry again so quickly, that was a part of the equation that we needed.

SC: It’s not like you guys haven’t spoken to each other. You have regular phone calls, and you’ve been checking in, but I suppose you only ever really know when you get together and do it. I mean I would imagine, and correct me if I’m wrong, getting together for a rehearsal isn’t going to answer that question. You’ve got to be in a live setting doing a gig. Do you feel that it’s fair to say this was probably the safest possible real performance environment you could have done it in, because there was no audience? Obviously in another sense it must’ve been hard to play without an audience, but in another sense, it allowed you to focus on each other. Is that fair to say or not?

RT: That’s exactly fair to say. It allowed us to enjoy the moment and I appreciated the purity of that for us at that specific moment. It goes without saying that we miss playing gigs and miss the fans, but in the specific instance of our first gig together in nearly a year and with all that’s happened, it was very cool to be able to focus on the reconnection.

SC: On a blunt level, do you now think that because this went the way it did, it’s gonna make discussions between the four of you about creating in the future easier?

RT: Absolutely, yeah. There’s already discussions. We can start looking towards the next step. Before we even left HQ, it was already like, “Okay, you know, let’s start talking.”

SC: And so for the foreseeable future, the bubble method that you’ve enacted is gonna be the bubble method that you continue to implement, am I right?

RT: Yeah, exactly. These will be the steps taken to do anything that we’re gonna do as a team. So it’s almost like, you know, you gotta budget for that now. Just the way it is… better to be safe than sorry.

SC: You mean financially budget for it because it’s not cheap?

RT: Oh, yeah.

SC: That’s another expense of course that’s gonna become part of everything.

RT: We’re not gonna take shortcuts or risks.

SC: Everything’s on the table then.

RT: Yeah. The good thing about the kinda situation that you’re talking about is that, especially when you’re writing, it helps you to understand you’re out of your element. Because that forces you to be connected on a creative level a little more easily, simply because there are fewer distractions. But let’s see, as I said, we’re starting to talk about all sorts of things and everything’s on the table which is exciting.

SC: Finally, let’s touch on what you, the creative spider, have been up to?

RT: So, back in December, around Christmas, I finished recording a four-song EP for the Infectious Grooves which was just released on my birthday [October 23rd for those wanting to offer belated greetings – ED]. These were unreleased songs from almost 30 years ago which were never finished, and they’re only available on vinyl. So there’s that. I’ve also recently recorded a one-minute Zoom jam with the incredible Hiromi from Tokyo. She’s the most amazing jazz pianist, and it was the most challenging single minute I’ve had on bass maybe ever, but super fun and very different, so another horizon to explore.

And I very recently recorded one instrumental song, “Currency of Control,” with fellow local Venice/Dogtown drummer Brad Wilk of Rage Against the Machine and Brooklyn bad ass bassist Brady Watt, and yeah, this was a fun remote recording where I played keyboard, bass, and guitar. And okay, I don’t shred like Kirk, but my part is interesting. So I think that shows that I love writing and collaborating when there’s time, and with this pandemic, guess what? There’s been time.

For me it has been about keeping my mind as much at ease as possible through creativity. Creating music heals, if you’re an artist or writer, your medium helps heal you, and also just learning, growing, and creating as much as possible is medicine for sure. Between that, floating in the cool Pacific Ocean as much as possible with my familia, and getting some surfing in, I’m managing to keep any negativity at bay.

Oh, one more cool thing… James got me into a guy, a Dutch athlete called Wim Hof who has a philosophy based around cold therapy and breathing exercises. Those breathing exercises have helped me start my days with more focus, energy, and clarity. So yeah, keeping busy, keeping my range wide for fun jams and creative learning opportunities, and really just making the best of everything right now, which is what we have to do. And I don’t want any of this to seem like I’m flexing, but it has been an interesting productive year centered around smaller, fun, powerful, creative, collaborative moments. It’s been like an awakening for me, like, “Wow! I can do this, people really dig it, and they appreciate what I bring!”